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Tiger of old wrote: A heap of the points that south kicked in that epic grand final were shots from the boundary, outside 50, and under extreme pressure so it wasn't exactly all poor kicking

It would have been a travesty if you didnt win the flag in 1981 TOO as that Claremont side and its season where as good as I have ever seen especially considering the quality of opposition across the board in those days.

Norsworthy kicked 33 goals?....certainly not in the league.... surely? If he did then was the comp as good as you guys are saying it was in 81?....How many games did Coups play for EF?...surely he was past his best by then.....Olsen in 80.....Couper in 81.....wasn't Nifty EF boom recruit in 82....thank fark for Muzza and Maxie J in 83....

Freezin wrote: Norsworthy kicked 33 goals?....certainly not in the league.... surely? If he did then was the comp as good as you guys are saying it was in 81?....How many games did Coups play for EF?...surely he was past his best by then.....Olsen in 80.....Couper in 81.....wasn't Nifty EF boom recruit in 82....thank fark for Muzza and Maxie J in 83....

I think Nifty was in 83 Freeze.
Big Ron was in 82 and with him he brought along some handy types in Colin Waterson, David Rankin, Peter Keays amongst others.

gtr: I agree with you 100 per cent on the relative strengths of the sides in that era

1 cl
2 sf
3 sd 82
4 subi
5 ef

Freeze: His goals are on Ric's site; it makes him an alright recruit, nothing special as you have always argued

bh: very true about Claremont; it also true about South in 1980; there is no doubt that both clubs, South in 1980 and Claremont the following year, would have been regarded as profound failures had they not won at least one flag with the sides they had on the park. It goes to show how well SD did in 83-84.

Finally, in terms of comparison with the VFL, there is evidence that our top was better than their bottom, and could compete with thier best on occassion. Both Claremont and SD went deep into that night competition, Subi thrashed St Kilda and came close to beatting Hawthorn.

Southerner wrote: We saw one record score after another it seemed - some incredible quarters and from memory there were at least four occasions where teams scored 13 goals in them.
I witnessed 40 in the very last match of the season , still engraved in my memory
Then watched my side kick 4.12 and two out of bounds on the full in the second quarter of the grannie , and again witness Maurice Rioli dominate a game.

Southerner, I thought the Doggies kicked 6.15 in that epic 2nd qtr, but will defer to your better memory. I remember watching it in disbelief as South should have destroyed any chance the Tiges have of winning and watching MR weave his magic was astonishing, one of the best individual efforts I've seen. CL had the better Home and away season but Souths let that GF get away from them with wasted opportunities. Was that the game with the big donnybrook, Beecroft and Jjimmy Krack from CL v big Basil and Benny Vigona with TI trying to drag Jimmy out of the pack, awesome stuff.

gtrxuone wrote: 81 was an amazing season.Claremont where the standout side only losing 2 games.Did they also beat Melbourne on the MCG in the Fosters cup.Most wins where cricket scores.Probably good enough to beat all VFL sides in Perth.
East Perth v Essendon and Carlton v Claremont use to play pre season double header.Claremont fixed Carlton up by over 10 goals.
Bad kicking is bad football and that's what south did in the GF.they where the better side on the day.Footbll journalists said it was a higher standard game than the VFL GrandFinal.
Swans where 3rd and probably a 5 to 7 goal better side than 4th placed EP.After 81 the Wafl went down with at last 3 teams struggling each year.Remember the 86 sides Subi and EF where good sides but below SF80,Cmt81,SD82.

Carlton never took practice matches too seriously, they thought it took up valuable drinking time. They did take April to September seriously though, as evidenced by flags in 79, 81 and 82 and fourth place finishes in 78 and 80.

The night series was always played at VFL Park - there were no lights at the MCG until 1985 and around that time, the MCC were heavily restricted as to the total number of cricket and football matches able to be played under lights in a year. I think it was as low as 10-12 days for the year initially.

Having lived in Melbourne at that time, my personal view is that the Claremont 81 side would have been at least around mid-table, maybe a finalist.

I do miss the all-out attack and 40+ goal free-for-alls. So much better than the defence oriented bore-athons

Turn it up gtr and Ark, no way were those sides better than Subi and old easts 85/86. C'mon those early 80's top sides were far too slow for the mid 80's champs, not to mention the midget old slow lumbering ruckmen, fark me Moss and Boucher were short, slow logs in comparison to the tall agile athletic Keene and Harding and the high leaping Scott who were all young and approaching their prime. Also tell me exactly when either of them got bags of say 9? Freeze is right. This is how it goes imo - Subi/old easts 85/86, Claremont, not a bad side in 81 but a better side in 86, cruelled by injury, fortunately for us! Beat us early 86 when at near full strength, if not killed by injury they would have been a monty, swans 82 souths 80...

Tiger of Old .No-one was more deserving of success than Graeme Moss.Left the VFL as a reigning Brownlow Medalist.His heart was allways in WA.Took on a young Claremont side as a captain coach.And turned them into a super side.

DG wrote: Turn it up gtr and Ark, no way were those sides better than Subi and old easts 85/86. C'mon those early 80's top sides were far too slow for the mid 80's champs, not to mention the midget old slow lumbering ruckmen, fark me Moss and Boucher were short, slow logs in comparison to the tall agile athletic Keene and Harding and the high leaping Scott who were all young and approaching their prime. Also tell me exactly when either of them got bags of say 9? Freeze is right. This is how it goes imo - Subi/old easts 85/86, Claremont, not a bad side in 81 but a better side in 86, cruelled by injury, fortunately for us! Beat us early 86 when at near full strength, if not killed by injury they would have been a monty, swans 82 souths 80...

This is very much subjective - but the blinkered arrogance of gtr and Ark as if it was some how fact based instead of some personal feeling. Thank you DG and Casual Observer.

No arrogance to it. Claremont had the best record of any side in that era, nineteen wins, finishing three games ahead of SD.They kicked 140 points or above in the vast majority of their games. In short they dominatted the season. They also did something that very few sides have done and that is win a grand final from behind at three quarter time. They were a great side and the facts bear it out.