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Plenty of anti vaxers in WA age care, their double jab rate is only 84.5%, many of them simply don't want to be jabbed at their stage of life

I have no problem asking people to get vaxxed and strongly encourage them to do so. I suspect we would have got to 80% which was the original Aus states agreement, without harsh punitive measures. Let's not fall for the the 90% max rate = 90% people agree with it argument as it clear that is not the case.

I have a problem locking out groups in society. I hate to be contrarian Mcbob, however, even the WHO have said that mandates are a last resort and particularly have come out and said for travel it should not be mandated and that Vaccine passes are also not a recommended feature of the WHO's COVID response. So again I think you will find we are not that the "hillbillies" are hardly off the mark with these debates. A healthy democracy is about nuanced discussions.

Our low deaths rates are a combination of a number of things not just one. Political/Environmental/medical factors all contribute. I have no problem with Mcgowan closing the border for much of the past 2 years. We were at that stage are all in it together. However, now as you rightly point out now we have our first-class and second-class citizens. That is my only disagreement here.

Jake wrote:

I have no problem asking people to get vaxxed and strongly encourage them to do so. I suspect we would have got to 80% which was the original Aus states agreement, without harsh punitive measures. Let's not fall for the the 90% max rate = 90% people agree with it argument as it clear that is not the case.

I have a problem locking out groups in society. I hate to be contrarian Mcbob, however, even the WHO have said that mandates are a last resort and particularly have come out and said for travel it should not be mandated and that Vaccine passes are also not a recommended feature of the WHO's COVID response. So again I think you will find we are not that the "hillbillies" are hardly off the mark with these debates. A healthy democracy is about nuanced discussions.

Our low deaths rates are a combination of a number of things not just one. Political/Environmental/medical factors all contribute. I have no problem with Mcgowan closing the border for much of the past 2 years. We were at that stage are all in it together. However, now as you rightly point out now we have our first-class and second-class citizens. That is my only disagreement here.

That divide in society is only because people chose it.  Segregation in society based on things people cannot control is wrong - like race. But this is something that is well within everyone's control.   

I get what you are saying that race is not entirely the same as getting vaccinated, however, just because something is in your control does it automatically mean you are compelled to do it without question. There is a litany of government measures over the past 2 years that have changed on a dime eg: Playground, IVF, RAT tests etc because of public outcry so it does have precedent.

A couple of things vaccinated and un-vax have always lived side by side with each other this includes for much much more deadly diseases.

Most importantly. What is the end game of segregating the un-vaxxed? Is it to stop the spread? If so we can easily see the vaxxed spreading it around so it cannot be that, although initially it was said that was the reason which now has become quiet in the face of lived experiences.

Now it has been said it is to free up the hospital system? Just how many hospital beds do they anticipate this will free-up? That is the million dollar question I suspect it would be very little at all. But is that supposed to be the end game?

Remember while we are all so focused on vaccination rates and excluding those people, that the greatest correlation to death and hospitalisation is obesity and age. One of those is also something you can control.

Good ole Siouxie might help with Jake's search for some recent COVID data
Perhaps it should be called an immunization rather then a vaccination, seems like the latter is scaring all those anti vaxxers.

Covid-19: Get your booster, says Siouxsie Wiles | Stuff.co.nz

You're across this stuff Freez but aren't there something like 14 mandatory immunisation shots for kids these days in Oz? I could be wrong but thought kids got jabbed for things like chickenpox, polio, mumps, rubella and so on and if they don't, there's consequences like not being allowed to day care and that sort of stuff....maybe it's changed since my kids were little.

Freezin wrote:

Good ole Siouxie might help with Jake's search for some recent COVID data
Perhaps it should be called an immunization rather then a vaccination, seems like the latter is scaring all those anti vaxxers.

Covid-19: Get your booster, says Siouxsie Wiles | Stuff.co.nz

Looks like Dr Wiles needs to lose a bit of pork chop herself or her jabs may be rendered useless

Yep BC there are a bucket load of them mate.....Hep B x 3 jabs by 18 mths, Diptheria, Tetanus Polio jab x 5 by 6 yrs old then a booster at 11 yrs old....Measles, Mumps, Rubella x 2  jabs by 6 yrs old and a booster at 11.....plus a myriad of other jabs like meningococcal, varicella, Hep  A & HPV by 16.....I think pre schools are more stringent mandating the jabs then primary/high schools.I think a lot of anti vaxxers probably home school their kids anyway.

Dr Wiles has certainly been hogging the limelight since COVID began in 2020. DG......looks like an anti vaxxer/anti mandate on first appearances TBH.....never judge a book by its cover I guess.

Freez a decent article that I can see logic for an individual wanting to get vaxxed, particularly in the vulnerable category. But my argument is against segregation not usefulness of the vaccine. It does not address the mandates just encourages people to get vaccinated. Nothing wrong with encouragement.

Although the idea of getting multiples of one vaccine is not new, lets not equate the diseases of tetanus, diphtheria, and whooping cough with COVID, particularly for children. They are infinitely more harmful to children than COVID is to adults. The best equivalent is the flu jab. They helped in reducing the hospitalisations and death and it does wane over time. However, no one lost their jobs or were barred from restaurants etc.

I would like you to explain how is it that US states that had Vax passports fared no better in hospitalisations and deaths than those that did not? Is it because there is much more to those factors than just vax status. It's the old analogy if you have a hammer everything is a nail. Obesity and age are again by far the most common factor not Vax status. That is the reason why US states and other countries are dropping the punitive measures. Which we in WA seem like that is the only option to keeping us safe.

We must be careful that implementing punitive measures do not have unforeseen consequences. For example we have had a massive increase in pool/bath deaths in kids over the lockdown periods (which is directly linked to the lockdowns). In fact more (extra) children have died due to that than COVID. Does that mean the lockdowns were worth it? They probably were but still it shows that maybe these measures we cannot be sure that they work out how we think they will.

My original premise still stands. If we are going to segregate approx 10% of society atm, will be even more by the time the booster mandate kicks in, then we would want to have overwhelming evidence that we have done the right thing. I'm yet to see anything that says these punitive measures are worth the risk v reward.

No surprise that some individuals would comment on what this person looks like. WTF has that got to do with the FACTS she has posted, isn't that the most important thing to look at. FMD Einstein looked like a crazy shopping trolley man who had just stuck his finger in a power point socket, but he had a few interesting things to say.