TOPIC:

swan42 wrote:

Beasley Hutton wrote:

gtrxuone wrote: Well done to Sheik Mohammed on his Melbourne Cup win.

A win for the battlers GTR!

You do realise, I hope that Godolpin would be a major employer in Australia - directly and indirectly.

BH once again I will ask you if you are able to reconcile your complaint about the quality of the horses that Winx was racing against with your Trump-like contrariness (and equally Trump alternate facts) of complaining about quality horses competing in the Melbourne Cup? It seems to me to be completely irreconcilable.

Major employer in Australia? Interested to know what gets you status of a major employer and what exactly would be the wages, conditions, enterprise agreements etc they are employed under by good ole Godolpin.

ooollllrrrrrry2 wrote:

swan42 wrote:

Beasley Hutton wrote:

gtrxuone wrote: Well done to Sheik Mohammed on his Melbourne Cup win.

A win for the battlers GTR!

You do realise, I hope that Godolpin would be a major employer in Australia - directly and indirectly.

BH once again I will ask you if you are able to reconcile your complaint about the quality of the horses that Winx was racing against with your Trump-like contrariness (and equally Trump alternate facts) of complaining about quality horses competing in the Melbourne Cup? It seems to me to be completely irreconcilable.

Major employer in Australia? Interested to know what gets you status of a major employer and what exactly would be the wages, conditions, enterprise agreements etc they are employed under by good ole Godolpin.

Obviously I am not a party to the agreements with some of their employees, but there are some of their employees that do have regulated conditions such as jockeys, track workers. Vet services, farriers, stock feeds etc are employed directly or indirectly. Also, their involvement helps maintain the viability of the racing industry.

I presume you weren't suggesting that the wages they pay would be in violation of industrial awards and laws of Australia.

Archie Duda Goal Machine wrote: I don't know what the solution is, but that's four horses in the past six years that have sadly been euthanised after the Melbourne Cup.
I believe that 120-plus horses have had to be put down in horse races in Australia in the past year - something has to be done.

adgm the incident in today's cup happened about 800 m into the race. It is unfortunate what happened and in general everything is done to ensure the safety of both horse and jockey. There have been significant changes in the whip rule in recent years and I believe that there will be more changes in the next few years that will virtually eliminate the use of whips.

I am not sure where you got the figure of 120 from but I think it would also be appropriate to provide the total number of horses that have raced over that same period. Organisations like the RSPCA should be working in concert with the racing clubs to ensure that the highest levels of safety and care are provided for the horses.

Actually 119 horses according to this website, so I was slightly out, Swan42.
www.horseracingkills.com/issues/deathwatch/
I take your point that a lot of horses race every year, so the chances of a horse dying while racing or being euthanised is very slight.
That said, if even one-tenth of that number of players died on the footy field in a given year there would be a major outcry.
I'm certainly not advocating that racing on the flat should be banned, but agree with your suggestion that racing clubs should work in conjunction with the RSPCA to minimise the chance of equine fatalities.
For example, the above link says that 46 of the horses that died were two-year-olds, so perhaps horses shouldn't race until they're at least three (the Golden Slipper people wouldn't like that idea).
There's some parallels there with the AFL in 2009 increasing the draft age to 18 (obviously for different reasons to any proposed lift in horses' minimum racing age).

Arch I believe it is now 6 International horses in the last 5 years of the Melbourne Cup that have had to be euthanised-
2018- The Cliffsofmoher
2017- Regal Monarch
2015- Red Cadeaux
2014- Admire Rakti, Araldo
2013- Verema

Having been around the horse racing scene for most of my life I do know that unfortunately accidents can happen like a horse being spooked going on or off the track (usually by an inebriated under the weather fool with no idea about horses) or an unavoidable racing incident etc but one just hopes it is not a consequence of horses being pushed to the limit to win whilst carrying an injury just for the satisfaction of greedy owners & trainers glory or bank accounts as it is an already testing race and distance 3200m without going in with a problem that may or may not have been detected beforehand....maybe every horse should have to undergo a Vets examination-xray to determine if there are any undetected leg stress fractures etc that would result in the horse being immediately scratched if any are abnormalities are found?!
Yes it would be a very expensive exercise but lets face it those involved in Thoroughbreds ownership are not short of a dollar and would at least go someway to appease the anti-horse racing fraternity!

Archie Duda Goal Machine wrote: Actually 119 horses according to this website, so I was slightly out, Swan42.
www.horseracingkills.com/issues/deathwatch/
I take your point that a lot of horses race every year, so the chances of a horse dying while racing or being euthanised is very slight.
That said, if even one-tenth of that number of players died on the footy field in a given year there would be a major outcry.
I'm certainly not advocating that racing on the flat should be banned, but agree with your suggestion that racing clubs should work in conjunction with the RSPCA to minimise the chance of equine fatalities.
For example, the above link says that 46 of the horses that died were two-year-olds, so perhaps horses shouldn't race until they're at least three (the Golden Slipper people wouldn't like that idea).
There's some parallels there with the AFL in 2009 increasing the draft age to 18 (obviously for different reasons to any proposed lift in horses' minimum racing age).

Specifically I said that the RSPCA should work with the racing clubs.

Beasley Hutton wrote: Arch I believe it is now 6 International horses in the last 5 years of the Melbourne Cup that have had to be euthanised-
2018- The Cliffsofmoher
2017- Regal Monarch
2015- Red Cadeaux
2014- Admire Rakti, Araldo
2013- Verema

Having been around the horse racing scene for most of my life I do know that unfortunately accidents can happen like a horse being spooked going on or off the track (usually by an inebriated under the weather fool with no idea about horses) or an unavoidable racing incident etc but one just hopes it is not a consequence of horses being pushed to the limit to win whilst carrying an injury just for the satisfaction of greedy owners & trainers glory or bank accounts as it is an already testing race and distance 3200m without going in with a problem that may or may not have been detected beforehand....maybe every horse should have to undergo a Vets examination-xray to determine if there are any undetected leg stress fractures etc that would result in the horse being immediately scratched if any are abnormalities are found?!
Yes it would be a very expensive exercise but lets face it those involved in Thoroughbreds ownership are not short of a dollar and would at least go someway to appease the anti-horse racing fraternity!

BH of the horses you mentioned were any of them unrelated to the actual racing and perhaps as a consequence of some other action?

All MC entrants were vetted.

Also, The Cliffsofmoher was an entire.

swan42 wrote:

ooollllrrrrrry2 wrote:

swan42 wrote:

Beasley Hutton wrote:

gtrxuone wrote: Well done to Sheik Mohammed on his Melbourne Cup win.

A win for the battlers GTR!

You do realise, I hope that Godolpin would be a major employer in Australia - directly and indirectly.

BH once again I will ask you if you are able to reconcile your complaint about the quality of the horses that Winx was racing against with your Trump-like contrariness (and equally Trump alternate facts) of complaining about quality horses competing in the Melbourne Cup? It seems to me to be completely irreconcilable.

Major employer in Australia? Interested to know what gets you status of a major employer and what exactly would be the wages, conditions, enterprise agreements etc they are employed under by good ole Godolpin.

Obviously I am not a party to the agreements with some of their employees, but there are some of their employees that do have regulated conditions such as jockeys, track workers. Vet services, farriers, stock feeds etc are employed directly or indirectly. Also, their involvement helps maintain the viability of the racing industry.

I presume you weren't suggesting that the wages they pay would be in violation of industrial awards and laws of Australia.

I was actually asking how they attained the status of a major employer and what constitutes that.

Beasley Hutton wrote: Arch I believe it is now 6 International horses in the last 5 years of the Melbourne Cup that have had to be euthanised-
2018- The Cliffsofmoher
2017- Regal Monarch
2015- Red Cadeaux
2014- Admire Rakti, Araldo
2013- Verema

Having been around the horse racing scene for most of my life I do know that unfortunately accidents can happen like a horse being spooked going on or off the track (usually by an inebriated under the weather fool with no idea about horses) or an unavoidable racing incident etc but one just hopes it is not a consequence of horses being pushed to the limit to win whilst carrying an injury just for the satisfaction of greedy owners & trainers glory or bank accounts as it is an already testing race and distance 3200m without going in with a problem that may or may not have been detected beforehand....maybe every horse should have to undergo a Vets examination-xray to determine if there are any undetected leg stress fractures etc that would result in the horse being immediately scratched if any are abnormalities are found?!
Yes it would be a very expensive exercise but lets face it those involved in Thoroughbreds ownership are not short of a dollar and would at least go someway to appease the anti-horse racing fraternity!

Other than having spent my fair share of time (and money) in TABs, Beas, I haven't had any direct involvement in the racing game.
I find the mathematics of punting fascinating and the race itself is just an added bonus.
The stats you mentioned in relation to recent editions of the Cup are alarming, so maybe it is a case of horses being pushed harder than they should be by owners and connections in their pursuit of glory.
One stat that would be interesting is the size of the field when a fatality occurs versus the cause of the horse's demise (fracture/broken bone, heart, etc.).
I'm certainly not advocating that horse racing be banned, but I think the relevant parties - both racing and animal welfare - need to put their collective heads together.

swan42 wrote:

Archie Duda Goal Machine wrote: Actually 119 horses according to this website, so I was slightly out, Swan42.
www.horseracingkills.com/issues/deathwatch/
I take your point that a lot of horses race every year, so the chances of a horse dying while racing or being euthanised is very slight.
That said, if even one-tenth of that number of players died on the footy field in a given year there would be a major outcry.
I'm certainly not advocating that racing on the flat should be banned, but agree with your suggestion that racing clubs should work in conjunction with the RSPCA to minimise the chance of equine fatalities.
For example, the above link says that 46 of the horses that died were two-year-olds, so perhaps horses shouldn't race until they're at least three (the Golden Slipper people wouldn't like that idea).
There's some parallels there with the AFL in 2009 increasing the draft age to 18 (obviously for different reasons to any proposed lift in horses' minimum racing age).

Specifically I said that the RSPCA should work with the racing clubs.

Point taken, Swan42.
I don't think the clubs can simply brush this aside and just say "that's racing".
Likewise, the RSPCA will need to concede some ground (or furlongs).