TOPIC:

I see his lordship is out there pratting on about the mark two version of this rubbish idea.

It does not matter whether you are left or right-wing this is a bad treaty for local jobs and the working-class.

If in doubt, think about how Trump in America and the left's lovey, Justin Trudeau in Canada, will have nothing to do with it, thanfully. If it passes parliament it should be ALP policy to abolish it if they win government.

I don't think Malcolm will want any modelling done on this TTP.Its set up with the major benefactor being large Multinational Company's.Who avoid paying Australian Taxes when ever they can.Farmers will also be the big winners.
What was DJT opposed to in the TTP.Any of the citizens of the signatories countrys .Can work in other TTP country's without a work visa.Like the European Union works.If a TTP registered company provides 15% or 200 million to the value of a project.They can use TTP registered workers without labour market testing.From Vietnam or South America..
The best of all if an Australian. Government department Stops a TTP company from a development.IE
environmental concerns. They can sue the Australian Government. So the only areas not up for grabs are World Heritage Listed areas and National Parks.
This has all been thought up to curve the domince of China.As China's not invited to the TTP.

GTR, I think your last line sums it up. We do something like the TTP, or sit back and watch China gradually swallow up the economies of South east Asia, the pacific and Australia ........ lesser of the two evils??

How exactly is China going to swallow Australia? The only reason China has a toe hold is because free traders have given her such access to the country.

ArkRoyal wrote: How exactly is China going to swallow Australia? The only reason China has a toe hold is because free traders have given her such access to the country.

Ark- Sam Destiari and Andrew Robb.The Chinese have infiltrated both major Political party's.Will be interesting to see in a decades time.If Middle America is better off than middle class TTP country.

Senior Seagull wrote: GTR, I think your last line sums it up. We do something like the TTP, or sit back and watch China gradually swallow up the economies of South east Asia, the pacific and Australia ........ lesser of the two evils??

Senior a foreign ran minesite.With there own airport, rail.harbour and workers.Not governed by the same workplace rules as Australian miner.

gtr: 100 per cent correct -- some people in Australia, in the political class in the media , together with the general public , seem to think that Australia had industries because of magic. No, it had nothing to do with magic, and everything to do with a protectionist policy supportted by Menzies and the ALP until Gough's day

If you listen to Graham Richardson on 'Sky' every once in a while, he will admit that the lowerring of the tariff wall has harmmed the working class in Australia, but you have to listen hard, as he was part of the leadership.

Now, why would one of the leaders of a working class party in Australia want to put in place policy which has benefitted the Chinese peasantry at the expense of his own people?

ARK.Labour only put the amendments into the Chinese FTA because the independent senators. Where going to vote it down.Xenophobic moves with the wind but recon Pauline will ask for key amendment's to be changed.This is a huge test for Labour and Shortens leadership.

There's a fair bit of nonsense being bandied about on this topic...Australia has had FTA's with all of the TPP countries except Mexico from memory for several years and the sky hasn't fallen in. There's winners and losers with all FTA's but generally our agribusiness industries get a uplift whilst general manufacturing takes a hit...but the big winners are your average Australian consumers who have greater access to cheaper products. and let's not forget the general import tariff for most goods is only 5% with many currently having no import duty at all even before the FTA's tee off.... so in terms of protecting Australian made products, FTA's generally work to get rid of non-tariff barriers more so than promoting imports by reducing landed costs.

BC -- it not just a question of the lose of the manufacturring industry, there are also other losses involved. One people don't mention is the loss of revenue to the budeget from the reduction in the tariff rates-- it does not seem to occur to politicians that our inability to ballance the budget, is, in part, from the loss of the tariff revenue. Have a look at the web site of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Budgetary Office, which contains the reports on the the loss of tarriff revenue owing to the free trade agreements with Krea, Japan and China.

We do not have full-employment and yet we take in 200,000 people a year in immigration. What are they going to do? Sell coffee or government services? We need more manufacturring jobs.

I have not even startted on the sovereignty question.