TOPIC:

That's way too simplistic freez. A team's performance will impact on the score board but shouldn't on the free kick count too much in a physical contact sport so that not one is awarded in a half of play.

Can you imagine a basketball team not being fouled once in a half or a soccer or NFL team not being penalised?

As I said at the outset, the umps certainly weren't the reason Subi lost as the free kick count could have been 20 to nil our way and I still think we would have lost after that performance.

BC totally agree with you mate.....it's mind boggling to see a side play a half of footy, without getting a free......though if that side is jogging along side or behind it's opponent, who has the ball, for most of the day......it ain't that simplistic TBH....good to see Subi change that tactic after half time though.

Oh boy. I was forced to have a beer at half time. I don't normally like to do that. But that was an emergency . Discussion was whether  this the worst performance since the 60s or the 80s.

We're just so much slower. It's no point hand balling to any one because the opposition are all over us athletically. We're better off just getting it on the boot. The one guy who can kick the ball is struggling with his hammy.  I thought the mood was down in the group. 

Players to try from the ressies include Bartlett,  cook, bellouard , kelman and Mullane.  Of those, mullane stands out to me for his capacity to burst and take a mark. The others have strengths but they might be hard pressed to match the pace, strength, stamina and skills of East fremantle. 

Probably tough for you boys after the pretty much uninterrupted success Subi have had in the last decade and a half. Would have been 5 consecutive flags without Peel stacking their side with Freo players in 2016 and 2017.  They are more used to handing out those sorts of thumpings than getting them. Fact is that nothing lasts forever but Subiaco will rebound.

You could be right Mike but just out of interest, I went through the free kick stats on the WAFL site to see if the better sides get more frees and give away less because they have more possessions and use it better. What I did was calculate the delta between frees for and frees against for the season so far, so that a team in the positive receives more than they give-away and vice versa.

Interestingly, EP has the best ratio of +30 with the next best CL on +13 and Subi the worst at -27 with SD some way back on -14. There doesn't appear to be a correlation with ladder position as 3 of the top five in PT, EF and SD are all negative and 3 of the bottom five CL, WP and PE are positive.  

Clearly Subi needs to get clarification from the umps on what they are doing wrong as it isn't costing games as they're pretty good at doing that on their own accord, but as a club they need to get better. 

I tried to get into the Footy Budget to see which umpires officiated in the EP and Subi games to see if there was a common denominator for each, but it wouldn't let me download them for some reason.

I guess it's goes down in some way to game plan, playing personnel and understanding the rules but I also think that umpiring in general so far this year hasn't been great which could be due to constant changes in interpretation coming down from the AFL and WAFC.

Rightly or wrongly we all reckon we get a rough deal from the umps, but there are times when it can be backed up by the stats.

BC wrote:

You could be right Mike but just out of interest, I went through the free kick stats on the WAFL site to see if the better sides get more frees and give away less because they have more possessions and use it better. What I did was calculate the delta between frees for and frees against for the season so far, so that a team in the positive receives more than they give-away and vice versa.

Interestingly, EP has the best ratio of +30 with the next best CL on +13 and Subi the worst at -27 with SD some way back on -14. There doesn't appear to be a correlation with ladder position as 3 of the top five in PT, EF and SD are all negative and 3 of the bottom five CL, WP and PE are positive.  

Clearly Subi needs to get clarification from the umps on what they are doing wrong as it isn't costing games as they're pretty good at doing that on their own accord, but as a club they need to get better. 

I tried to get into the Footy Budget to see which umpires officiated in the EP and Subi games to see if there was a common denominator for each, but it wouldn't let me download them for some reason.

I guess it's goes down in some way to game plan, playing personnel and understanding the rules but I also think that umpiring in general so far this year hasn't been great which could be due to constant changes in interpretation coming down from the AFL and WAFC.

Rightly or wrongly we all reckon we get a rough deal from the umps, but there are times when it can be backed up by the stats.

Very surprised about East Perth being in the positive.We aren't called the ferals for nothing and we let the umps know about it and it might work against us.As for West Perth i am not surprised they are in the positive as in the last decade i think they have had a positive free kick count  nearly every year.

Surprised the umpires are copping the heat and not the players and coaches for the performance. One of the less competitive games I’ve seen for years- even in the West Coast beltings last year the Eagles players tried. Not a ringing endorsement of the extension of the coaches contract. I’d say Subi are no chance for finals

Interestingly when I used to update the Free Kick Stats some years back on here I got scoffed at by some now bringing it up as an issue.
Also interestingly over the last 25 years or so the same 2 teams are constantly at the top of the free kick lists and the same for certain sides in the bottom 3 or 4.
I would suggest over 25+ years it is more than just a coincidence and more like a trend!!

CL- 166 (+32)
WP- 149 (+14)
EF- 143 (-6) *
SF- 134 (+14)
PT- 134 (-4)
EP- 132 (+30)
SU- 128 (-20) *
WC- 122 (-1)
PE- 120 (+3)
SD- 117 (-10)

* note EF & SU have played 1 extra game.

The classic was at Basso a few weeks back against WP where although Swans were leading by a couple of goals at the start of red time in the last qtr WP lead the free kicks 16 - 5 at that point!

KCEF wrote:

Surprised the umpires are copping the heat and not the players and coaches for the performance. One of the less competitive games I’ve seen for years- even in the West Coast beltings last year the Eagles players tried. Not a ringing endorsement of the extension of the coaches contract. I’d say Subi are no chance for finals

I don’t think anyone in their right mind could possibly blame the umpires for that disgraceful performance KCEF. I just found it an interesting sideline to not have a free in a half of footy. Of course, I did sit through the suspicious smell of the GF where Subi got 1 free kick in three quarters, so maybe it wasn’t so surprising 😅

KCEF wrote:

Surprised the umpires are copping the heat and not the players and coaches for the performance. One of the less competitive games I’ve seen for years- even in the West Coast beltings last year the Eagles players tried. Not a ringing endorsement of the extension of the coaches contract. I’d say Subi are no chance for finals

Where has anyone on this thread pointed the finger at the umpires for the loss KC?  On the contrary, Subi posters have put the blame fairly and squarely on the players and coaches.  The no free kick in a half was merely raised as a curiosity as I've not seen it before but it certainly wasn't the primary cause of a 15 goal defeat.