TOPIC:

yeah the Americans did a great job in 1918 - 60 thousand killed compared to France's 1.8 million. Did the Americans declare war on the Germans in the Second World War? Never had the guts. It is true that the US froze out the French on the nuclear question, and, they also planned to freeze out the British. What saved it with Congress for the British was that JFK was an ardent Anglophile and backed London.

It is an unalterable fact that De Gaulle believed the Americans would never use nuclear weapons to defend Europe; this, is also the reason why the British have the nuke. this become a real issue in the 1960s once the Russians could hit the US itself with their nukes

hardly surprising , it was France that was invaded and the US had nothing to do with it at all. Yes they joined late, but had never been involved in a European war at all previously and were isolationist in nature. Don't see your point quite frankly.,. And yes they did a huge job in WW II it would not of been winnable otherwise.

Then they did everything they could to bail out the useless French in Vietnam and then got sucked in themselves...

De Gaull was an arrogant hopeless leader that sent the joint into chaos brought down the republic with his Algerian War coup and then proceeded to stuff up NATO well try anyway, What he thought and the reason he left NATO had nothing to do with what the Yanks or Brits would of done with their Nukes , and all to do with his own ego and incompetence and typical French ungratefulness for the sacrifice of thousands of foreign lives in the liberation of their own country, i.e. Nuclear testing in the pacific blowing up rainbow warrior..so much for all the dead KIWIS buried on the Somme.

Churchill summed him up well

Churchill wrote: "I resented his arrogant demeanor. Here he was, a refugee, an exile from his own country under sentence of death, in a position entirely dependent on the goodwill of the British government, and also now of the United States. The Germans had conquered his country. He had no real foothold anywhere. Never mind; he defied all." Churchill also quite literally threatened to have De Gaulle returned to Algeria in chains, if necessary, on the night before DDay.

Baz: Do you think the Americans should grovel to France every 4 July because they would not have won their independence without France's direct military support?

Was the war against Spain in 1898 a European War? The US navy had plans to attack the Canary Islands should that be necessarily. What about the naval mission they used to do in the Mediterranean in the nineteenth century? The myth of isolation is even greater for the Asia Pacific -- the opening up of Japan was not isolationist. We need to keep in mind that one of the reasons the country stayed neutral, particularlly in 1914, was because the US was full of Germans.

Of Course the Anglo-Saxons had a different view from De Gualle, but that is the point isn't? Why do you think Attlee decided to build the bomb? because he had the same concerns, as did Adeneauer in Germany. This is before bevin twisted Washington's arm and got them to form Nato.

As for 1966, De gualle did not stuff up NATO: it just moved to Belgium: to quote the US President Johnson of the time when someone asks you to leave their house ' you take your hat and go'; he took it in his stride.

The man did lots of things to piss the West off but that does not mean he was wrong. He vetoed Britain's membership of the EEC -- and went even further by suggesting that should Britain join in the future, it would leave again. Got that one right, did'nt he? He knew the British well from having lived with them during the war.

He solved the Algerian problem -- at least for a time. It is true that he came back to power in what was very close to a coup.

What he did in Canada was a disgrace.

Always good to debate with you

It is good to see the Commonwealth government is startting to show some common sense on the China problem, notablly cancelling the sale of assets to Peking. Matters, are hotting up in the UK on this question too, as the Sino company involved in the planned investment in the nuclear industry, has been indictted in the United States for spying. Surelly not, not the Chinese?

Teresa May wont back down to them, she is a good operator.

ArkRoyal wrote: Baz: Do you think the Americans should grovel to France every 4 July because they would not have won their independence without France's direct military support?

Was the war against Spain in 1898 a European War? The US navy had plans to attack the Canary Islands should that be necessarily. What about the naval mission they used to do in the Mediterranean in the nineteenth century? The myth of isolation is even greater for the Asia Pacific -- the opening up of Japan was not isolationist. We need to keep in mind that one of the reasons the country stayed neutral, particularlly in 1914, was because the US was full of Germans.

Of Course the Anglo-Saxons had a different view from De Gualle, but that is the point isn't? Why do you think Attlee decided to build the bomb? because he had the same concerns, as did Adeneauer in Germany. This is before bevin twisted Washington's arm and got them to form Nato.

As for 1966, De gualle did not stuff up NATO: it just moved to Belgium: to quote the US President Johnson of the time when someone asks you to leave their house ' you take your hat and go'; he took it in his stride.

The man did lots of things to piss the West off but that does not mean he was wrong. He vetoed Britain's membership of the EEC -- and went even further by suggesting that should Britain join in the future, it would leave again. Got that one right, did'nt he? He knew the British well from having lived with them during the war.

He solved the Algerian problem -- at least for a time. It is true that he came back to power in what was very close to a coup.

What he did in Canada was a disgrace.

Always good to debate with you

The US wanted the Philippines in the pacific the Spanish were a declining vulnerable empire so ceased the chance , Barbary war as an Anti Piracy war.

That's a whole different situation to committing millions of troops to a continental war in Europe, esp given the death toll they knew about, yes they had a large German population , but then again so do South Australia, US also had a huge Russian population which was also anti German, the main issue was the huge Christian Peace movement and the fact the US actually had a very small army at the time, the US was also doing quite well economically from the war, selling and making munitions without a death toll.

Once the shipping losses became to big and the Lusitania went down they felt a reason to join, there was also the real possibility the Germany may win the war without them once Russia fell over, this caused Wilson a well know pacifist to commit troops that helped save the Western Front.

Anyway we are way off topic.

you can come up with a myriad of reasons for why the yanks chose not to bother until 1917, quite a few people in Britain did not want to bother in 1914 -- including the likes of Llyod George and Sir John Simon, the last of whom had the decency to resign from cabinet when we declarred war on Germany. We also had a small army, but we recruitted one, as indeed the yanks would do in 1917, when they finally joined the war.

Summing up France and the British Commonwealth with help from Russia ---millions of loses --- and Italy -- 600,000 deaths --- won the Great War not the US. In the end of course, they helped form the Versailles Treaty and them the Senate refused to sign it; but, at the same time demanded that the US have the rights associated with the treaty. Their position was absolutelly ridiculous. In 1921 they had to pass another act through Congress, because without it, the US was still technically at war with Germany.

Yes we are off topic, which is why I mentioned China in my last post.

Well here we go again, poor old Mr Choo is offended again because our Prime Minister blocked the sale of Ausgrid to Chinese investors. Thank farrk for that and more of it I say. Selling our electricity grid to the Chinese who are building up military bases in the South China Sea at a frenetic pace? I don't think so Mr Choo.

Stop your criminal Chinese mafia from manufacturing and importing ICE to Australia for starters.

www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/china-c...vLaF&ocid=spartandhp