TOPIC:

Just thought I would put this up for anyone interested whom wanted to comment. Swan 42, it will interesting to see what will happen with NI and Scotland in the future. You may very well be right about the prospect of the Union being broken, but for the moment, I would make the following points.

In regards to Scotland, turn out was lower than in the Union referendum, and indeed, one must also consider that some Unionist would have votted for remain whom will not vote to leave the Union. The SNP has no power to hold a referendum, the power lies with London. The Labour party would never agree to such a referendum. In addition to that, the SNP is now a minority government and it is unclear if it could get a referendum bill through the Scottish parliament.

Turning to NI, the situation is different, as in the province, as you know, over half a dozen ridings votted to leave along with England and Wales. Here again, we need to factor in that the Ulster unionist party campaigned to remain, the DUP to leave, splitting the Unionist vote. If there was a border vote, those Unionist votes would no longer be split. The attitude of SF is interesting: in previous referenda on Europe held in the republic of Ireland, SF has campaigned on the anti-European side, as it should have being a nationalist party, but in this referendum they became pro-Europe. Although, according to the figures, turn out was low in West Belfast, Scotland and London, which is why overall, the pro-Europeans lost the referendum.

We live in interesting times: I have the Australian election to look forward to very soon.

Thanks Arkroyal, brilliant and interesting topic to discuss.

Firstly let me say I was very happy with the Brexit vote, I think it was a victory of the ordinary man over the political elites, banks, corporations, and international threats.

Re the Sottish issue, firstly the Scots Parliament has no power to call another referendum, only Westminster can do that, British Labour are in chaos at this minute and would never agree as it would lose way to many seats in Westminster. Re the vote it was soundly beaten last time, Scotland will only vote with who gives them the biggest handouts, it voted for the UK for funds and it voted for the EU for subsidies. It wont get up ever now.

N I is a tiny province only about 700,000 votes all up, 300k out 400k in, tbh N I is a wart on the side of the UK , given a chance England would unload it to Ireland in a flash. But handouts locally play a huge part, N I is like Tassie a medicant state , N I would vote to stay with the Uk , mind you best thing for UK would be to unload it to Ireland.

As plebiscites seem to be the flavour of the month at the moment, do you really think that the British Party could really keep Scotland in the UK if Scotland vote to get out of the UK?

Baz: My thoughts 100 per cent. I supported the exit as well.

Swan 42: Scottish Nationalism is not a nice animal, it shares this trait with all Nationalisms the the world over. Since the Second World War era, it has backed Hitler, been vehemently ant-Catholic, Toryist, voted to bring down the Callaghan government which gave Thatcher power, lost a referendum, allied with Cameron against the Labour party, even though it risked a Tory Government, one which had promised Thursday's referendum, and finally, failled to bring out the vote in Scotland so that that Exit won instead of Remain.

If the SNP had of been truly a force for left progressivism rather than simply Anglophobia, it would have supported the Labour party at the last election, ensuring a Labour government and no referendum on Europe.

Let us hope they do not do anything silly, such as, declare UDI.

Heres one for Bazza and Ark Royal.
Some British MP is talking about using parliment to overturn last Fridays result.The European Union talking about another referendum.Bad losers.Turkey are allmost ready to join the EU.Scotland joins they already have Greece.Italy and Spain.
The Germans must have a real fat Cheque Book forgot Eastern Europe
Norway has traded with the EU the last 40 years without being a member of the EU.Referendum defeated twise in 1972+1994.

gtrxuone: Thanks for your post --- I have heard similar things, all childish stuff to be honest. I don't think Europe will stand any nonsense when it comes to Scotland -- the Germans will not pay for them and the Spanish will veto them because they are scarred of Catalonia breaking away. In essence, the Scots could end up out of the Union and outside Europe if they are not careful

It is absolutely true that Norway and Switzerland have survived quite well outside the EU. People on the left, in particular, have this view that the EU is some sort of progressive utopia it is not; it discriminates against the rest of the world, in trade, politics, culture, immigration to name just a few areas; and, in terms of the people whom live within the EU, it has insisted on the common currency strategy which has necessitated a policy of austerity and completely destroyed economies, such as, Italy's. The common currency was, of course, designed that way by the Germans, because the Italian lira -- to take one example -- used to under cut German exports. The Italians and the Greeks are paying a high price for the European ideal.

gtrxuone wrote: Heres one for Bazza and Ark Royal.
Some British MP is talking about using parliment to overturn last Fridays result.The European Union talking about another referendum.Bad losers.Turkey are allmost ready to join the EU.Scotland joins they already have Greece.Italy and Spain.
The Germans must have a real fat Cheque Book forgot Eastern Europe
Norway has traded with the EU the last 40 years without being a member of the EU.Referendum defeated twise in 1972+1994.

Yes, make no mistake there will be huge powers aimed at trying to corrupt the outcome Goldman Sachs pumped millions into tbe remain campaign, the IMF and Banks are wild they didnt get the result they tried to buy.
But all political parties agreed they would accept the result as a reseult the Referedum Act was past which set in stone that what ever the outcome it would be accepted and acted on, of course they all thought the result was in the bank, Cameron broke the golden rule never call an ref unless you kmow the outcome.

I cant see them turning back now. Dont forget Cameron is gone and so is the pro EU cabinet, Corbyn has been a disaster for labour, half his shaddow cabinet resigned today due to his poor leadership and failure to secure a remain vote with labour voters, his days are numbered.

So whoever the next PM is , probably Johnson, will be a leave PM.

Scotland are hopeless , they voted against independance to stay in the UK, then voted to stay in the EU when tbe UK voted to leave. They blew the chance. If by some miracle they get another ref in a few years , they would firts have to gurantee EU membership firts, and that wont be easy because they will have to give up the pound , move to the Euro , plus go without UK funding. I just cant see it ever happening.

The following might help to understand the British mindset.


The pottery industry is missing off this list to which the EU is responsible for as they make our trade deals with china not us.
We as the United Kingdom are being sold out.
Here's a short list of financial and industrial FUBARs from the EU then,

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers’ pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to Far East with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with EU grants.
Gillette gone to Eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the Far East, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.
Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.
I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Great post Devonleigh.There going to have nothing left the way it's going.There de~industrialising faster than Australia is atm.

Wales was outraged by the way the EU treated Port Talbot Steel Works, it shafted them giving preference for German steel works.