TOPIC:

Bazza wrote:

Grassy wrote: We could McBob,if the likes of Penny Wong allow the people to have a say on this in a Binding Plebiscite or Referendum.But she and her Cohorts are too Shitscared,our answer will be NO.That is why they are trying to slip a fast one by us in Parliament.

The only reason anyone or anything doesn't want to allow a general vote on an issue is because they are shit scared of losing, its the same story all the time, all this BS excuse about cost and not being binding letting parliament have its say , is just a smoke screen, we have had votes on many things, conscription, even the bloody national anthem all the same points applied to those votes but we still had them, besides The Libs took the plebiscite front and centre to the election and they won and Labor lost, parliament should not of stood in the way and allowed the people to have their say.

Bazza if we are going down the mandate route: could you please confirm the following:

(i) the ALP had as part of their election platform for the 2007 election an ETS;
(ii) the Liberal Party had as part of their election platform for the 2007 election an ETS;
(iii) the ALP won the 2007 election;
(iv) the Liberal Party did not honour the mandate for the party that had won the 2007 election and voted against the ETS legislation.

tbh...I don't think your average punter gives a chit about whether gays can marry or not. the only one's who have strong opinions one way or the other are the right wing church going conservatives and the gays themselves. I for one couldn't care less if they can legally marry and I'd suggest I'm in the majority.

swan42 wrote:

Bazza wrote:

Grassy wrote: We could McBob,if the likes of Penny Wong allow the people to have a say on this in a Binding Plebiscite or Referendum.But she and her Cohorts are too Shitscared,our answer will be NO.That is why they are trying to slip a fast one by us in Parliament.

The only reason anyone or anything doesn't want to allow a general vote on an issue is because they are shit scared of losing, its the same story all the time, all this BS excuse about cost and not being binding letting parliament have its say , is just a smoke screen, we have had votes on many things, conscription, even the bloody national anthem all the same points applied to those votes but we still had them, besides The Libs took the plebiscite front and centre to the election and they won and Labor lost, parliament should not of stood in the way and allowed the people to have their say.

Bazza if we are going down the mandate route: could you please confirm the following:

(i) the ALP had as part of their election platform for the 2007 election an ETS;
(ii) the Liberal Party had as part of their election platform for the 2007 election an ETS;
(iii) the ALP won the 2007 election;
(iv) the Liberal Party did not honour the mandate for the party that had won the 2007 election and voted against the ETS legislation.

So did the Greens, with their support it would of passed. LNP Changed leaders.

Anyway this is about a plebisite, giving everyone a say is about the fairest thing you can do, Im sure if a change of flag design is ever put forward no one would counter not giving everyone a say...but wait its non binding pfft. no plebisite result has ever been ignored, if Hughes had pushed through conscription despite the result, I reckon the country would of fallen apart.

BC wrote: tbh...I don't think your average punter gives a chit about whether gays can marry or not. the only one's who have strong opinions one way or the other are the right wing church going conservatives and the gays themselves. I for one couldn't care less if they can legally marry and I'd suggest I'm in the majority.

You could be right BC, but lets not forget demographics in Oz have changed hugely in last 20 yrs, your Indian Chinese Arabic communities would be dead against it, and then theres the Jews and plus a lot of ordinary folk fell uncomfortable about it but are to scared to publicly - otherwise you get labled for some sort of hate crime, given the privacy of the ballot box its different.

but generally I agree , its a piss weak issue, if the senate had just passed the plebiscite vote we may well have it done and dusted by now, but guess what.

Anyway its almost a given Billshitten will be PM in less than 2 yrs and he can push it through with glee..another KRUDD national apology moment...

Baz: I will be interestted to see what happens if the Liberal Party turff out Lord Malcolm; the strategy of the ALP, the Greens and the Gay lobby is okay provided the ALP wins the next election. If there is a new Liberal leader and the government wins the next election, than the above mentioned groups will have completelly stuffed it up.

ArkRoyal wrote: Baz: I will be interestted to see what happens if the Liberal Party turff out Lord Malcolm; the strategy of the ALP, the Greens and the Gay lobby is okay provided the ALP wins the next election. If there is a new Liberal leader and the government wins the next election, than the above mentioned groups will have completelly stuffed it up.

Exactly Ark, if Bernardis new party the Aussie Conservatives end up with the balance of power it could be interesting...

Bazza wrote:

swan42 wrote:

Bazza wrote:

Grassy wrote: We could McBob,if the likes of Penny Wong allow the people to have a say on this in a Binding Plebiscite or Referendum.But she and her Cohorts are too Shitscared,our answer will be NO.That is why they are trying to slip a fast one by us in Parliament.

The only reason anyone or anything doesn't want to allow a general vote on an issue is because they are shit scared of losing, its the same story all the time, all this BS excuse about cost and not being binding letting parliament have its say , is just a smoke screen, we have had votes on many things, conscription, even the bloody national anthem all the same points applied to those votes but we still had them, besides The Libs took the plebiscite front and centre to the election and they won and Labor lost, parliament should not of stood in the way and allowed the people to have their say.

Bazza if we are going down the mandate route: could you please confirm the following:

(i) the ALP had as part of their election platform for the 2007 election an ETS;
(ii) the Liberal Party had as part of their election platform for the 2007 election an ETS;
(iii) the ALP won the 2007 election;
(iv) the Liberal Party did not honour the mandate for the party that had won the 2007 election and voted against the ETS legislation.

So did the Greens, with their support it would of passed. LNP Changed leaders.

Anyway this is about a plebisite, giving everyone a say is about the fairest thing you can do, Im sure if a change of flag design is ever put forward no one would counter not giving everyone a say...but wait its non binding pfft. no plebisite result has ever been ignored, if Hughes had pushed through conscription despite the result, I reckon the country would of fallen apart.

Bazza you can obfuscate as much as you like but we were going to spend over 200 million dollars for an opinion poll. There were a number of coalition parliamentarians who said they would not be taking any notice of the result. What a complete waste of time and money.

We elect parliamentarians to make decisions and on this should have also been put through as legislation and voted accordingly.

So there was no mandate as a result of the 2007. Therefore, we won't hear you mentioning a mandate consequent to the 2016 election.

Grassy wrote: Sorry Swan,even if it was those Tory Sods calling for it most,this issue Must be decided by the people.

I want to know where we,as a Nation,stand on this!I'll be voting Yes by the way.I don't think the sky is going to fall in here if we do.But if we don't,then I think it's merely going to the Backburner.Not for long though!

Grassy exactly why do we have a Parliament? I don't believe I was given an opportunity to vote on the reduction of the level when you are required to start paying HECS. I don't believe I was afforded the opportunity to vote yea or nay for the bank levy. Do we have a non-binding opinion poll on those issues as well?

We elect a parliament to govern blah blah blah, how often is that trite rubbish rolled out, is that why we've have about 5 votes on day light bloody saving Swan? lol In a way your right, we elected a Parliament that decided a peoples vote on this particular issue was the way to go, so let the process work if you really believe in the issue and not scared of the result, don't hide behind the excuse of cost and any other obfuscated confected smoke screen you can put up.

Are you totally opposed to any direct democracy, - would you have been happy for example if Hughes had forced Conscription on us , or Fraser had legislated for God Save the Queen to be our National Anthem, in your world the citizens are deprived of all say at all, and even when they decide to elect a government that wants to take a certain course - you still want to deprive them of a say...sounds like your a totalitarian political elitist that wants the unwashed under he thumb.