TOPIC:

a good site -- why was it that WP had to resort to filth when they won this game and the second semi in 1995, even though Heatley kicked ten goals?

It was very interesting to hear Keith Slater question the legacy of Bunton's coaching style. I have had the same reservations for years, as people know.

Now neutrals can see why Subi supporters don't rate Langdon.

When I look back at Haydn Bunton Jnr's coaching legacy AR I see a coach who made a huge difference at 3 clubs by turning them around almost overnight from their previous rabble states to contenders in no time in 2 different states-

SD- 1961-64 Premiers in 1961, 62, 63
SA- 1975-82 GF in 1979 the last time the Panthers have played in a GF & only 2nd since WWII
SU- 1984-92 Premiers in 1986, 88, GF's in 85, 87, 91

Some background to those particular sides-

SD- had been a basket case in the 1950s & in 1960 had won the wooden spoon and had lost their last 16 games in that season. Bunton is appointed Captain/Coach & with the virtual same side not only improves but wins the next 3 Premierships.

SA- in the SANFL had done nothing since WWII (bar the one off 1964 upset of PA under the C/C Kerley) and they made finals in 77, 79, 81 and GF in 79 against the formidable Port but lost a low scoring slog. They have done little since then as well.

SU- we all know Subi was a complete basket case on and off the park until Bunton came back for a second stint in 84 quickly improving that season and then played in 4 consecutive GFs from 85-88 and again in 91 winning 2 of those in 86 & 88. It has also been argued by some Bunton set up Subi's drought breaking 1973 flag in his 68-72 tenure before Ross Smith came in and completed the job that year.

He also coached Norwood to Finals in his 2 year coaching stint there in 57-58 including the 58 GF loss to that SANFL colossus Port by a measly 2 points and he was only 20/21yo at the time.

The 1990 Grand Final was a very entertaining game to watch ( especially for Swans fans!) Up to yesterday I had only seen highlights as I was travelling for the whole of 1990 and therefore following the season from afar. Must admit 1990 came out of the blue because Swans didn't even make finals in 1989. But in 1990 they had a good mix of experienced players such as Langsford, Don Holmes, Hetherington, Hutton, Hodyl and Phil Narkle along with a crop of new players like Retzlaff, Ogg, Passeri, Strempel, Walker, Grasso, Menegola, Penny and Gow and of course a master coach in Toddy who had been discarded by WCE in 1989.

They clicked together really well during 1990 culminating in a great performance against the favourites. Claremont were very wasteful with the breeze in the first quarter and this is what ultimately cost them. Interesting to see Tony Evans and Don Pyke playing for the Tigers, of course they were to play crucial roles in the Eagles first flag in 1992. Some of the younger Swans players were drafted by AFL clubs but none of them really played more than a handful of games, for example Brendon Retzlaff only played 24 games for 3 clubs. Surprised that some of them didn't establish themselves in the AFL because they their talent was on show in the 1990 grand final.
Of course Shane Strempel was the victim of the famous boxing training routine where teammates were asked by the Brisbane Bears coach to punch the living daylights out of him to teach him some respect! Not surprisingly he didn't play too many games for the Bears even though he showed some real ability in the 1990 GF.

Strempel could have been anything Mike, he had a great 1990 season his first at WAFL League level then was drafted to the Bad News Bears based on the party strip Gold Coast which was probably the worst thing for his footy development (certainly off field), in hindsight he should have stayed at Swans under the tutelage of Toddy for another year or 2.
He did come back to Swans after that for a year or 2 and still showed his undoubted ability at times but then he went overseas I heard.
1990 was an enjoyable year as we were not even considered as a threat by all the media "experts" pre season but proved them all wrong and not for the first time!
An interesting stat from that season is we beat the top of the ladder CL in all 3 contests during the H&A season plus the GF (we lost to them in the 2nd Semi Final by 7 points but we were coming hard late at them after being nearly 6 goals down at one stage) but we lost to the bottom side twice that year.
A game late in that season at Claremont Oval were we came from behind to win late in the game against the all conquering Tigers probably was the catalyst to winning that year as I believe it gave us the confidence to believe we could beat them when it counted and it was an enjoyable long train ride home for this high school student at the time.

Bease -- good post mate, there is little doubt that Bunton has an impressive record, particularly in this state, but one must put it in perspective because of the question of whether he had the cattle or not relative to the rest of the league.

His greatest achievements were at SD, where he won the club's first flag against a powerful EP side before going on to win a hat-tick, for your beloved club, as you know.
At Subiaco he had the players, partly from heavy recruiting and should have won more flags.
In South Australia he never won a flag and when he went to Sturt, the club remained last on the ladder.

In 1984, given the side he had, was it acceptable for Subi to have just seven wins after round 19? We won our last two games which made the season look respectable.

AR im not sure Subi had the standout best side in any of the years Bunts was at the helm from 84-92.
Observing from afar this is my take on each season he was coach at SU.

84- SD, EF & to a lesser extent CL were the 3 best sides.
85- EF were the standout that year SU did well to get close to them in the 2 Finals.
86- SU & EF were imho equal standouts and SU got the money where it counted on GF day.
87- CL the absolute clear standout.
88- CL to mine a nose best to SU in H&A but SU once again got them on the big day.
89- CL the standout with SF not far behind.
90- CL the best side over the year, SD & SF next best although SD had the wood on CL.
91- CL the absolute clear standout.
92- SF, EF & SD the best sides that year in a close season, unfortunately SD choked in the Finals, SF did the same in the GF but EF were too good when it counted.

So in all of Bunts years I had Subi as equal best side over the year in 86 but they did win 2 flags from 5 GF's in that time.

BH -- yep, 1985 is the year I would complain about: we should have done what SF did in 1980; we were in front in all three finals games that season.

bh; on another topic, what watching a bit of that game did demonstrate, was something you have been stressing, the much higher standard between 1987 and 1995.

Ark I think 1991 was the tipping point for the Victorian based clubs.The Eagles under Madhouse where starting to click.And journalists like Mike Sheean and Caroline Wilson+Gerrard Healy.Where saying the Wafl was to high of a standard. With another AFL standard team available in the Wafl.
Don't think the same quality was available for Gerrard Neesham in 1995.Claremont got raped at the end of 1991 and didn't make the finals in 92.

ArkRoyal wrote: BH -- yep, 1985 is the year I would complain about: we should have done what SF did in 1980; we were in front in all three finals games that season.

Don't be too harsh on them AR - they did manage to win one of those finals games that season. The 2 finals they did lose were against a better side as well!