TOPIC:

Good to see some solid debate about our current plight. As this forum is monitored by the club it will be interesting to see the fall out, if any, or will the club continue to push its own narrative around playing/developing locals(questionable), injuries costing wins, and a series of close losses that, if you analyze, we should’ve maybe won 2. And also find solace in the fact we are seemingly doing well off field, finance wise.

On the wins and losses front and touching on those early games it brings to question, was it talent that got us close or didn’t allow us to win, was it good/poor effort or was it good/bad coaching? Did the coaching and the game style adopted allow us to get close or did it cost us wins? For mine we played a style that was more about limiting damage and staying in the game than taking the game on. This was highlighted by a directive to always have Erceg as the spare which then obviously always gave the opposition a spare in our fwd half and only good ball movement/transition would result in a score, that or scores from Centre bounce which when playing an undersized ruck is also a disadvantage. 

I noted Success Hill mentioned Pruyn hasn’t had clean air to coach the club in his own manner. I presume this is referring to the matter of Harding as Reserves coach and part time League assistant. It is quite an odd set up having a long serving League and Colts coach back at the club. From memory wasn’t he the Talent Manager when Pickering got the gig and then moved on in Pickerings last year which coincided with his best win/loss record? Interesting that’s he’s come back and the League side have regressed while the reserves sit atop the ladder. Which brings to question, should’ve Harding simply been made League coach or is having him in the fold an actual hindrance?

As this season has progressed it has become clear that it’s both a talent and game style issue at League level presently and I think if we played the same style with Fisher, Erceg, Mckasker, Collins yeah we might get a close loss or scrape a win but is it contender footy?! 

But also for mine the feeling around the club has changed. Supporters aren’t as upbeat and the administration look tired and overwhelmed, possibly realising that the blind faith and forthcoming success they are preaching and believing themselves is not any closer to fruition than at any time in their presence. 

So who makes the tough calls, if any, or do we simply roll on in the hope that next season is different? Does the CEO go and you risk losing someone influential in our off field success but you get a footy head in? Does the President and his Deputy make way for fresh ideas and heavy focus on winning? Does the Footy Manager and his mates get moved on after a long reign and with it the armory of IP and networks that are as much a positive as they quite possibly are a negative. 

One thing is certain, something needs to change because while we’ve had change in Pickering and Pruyn everything, absolutely everything is still very much the same. 

While I’m here, one thing that has definitely changed is the price of a beer and the club should be ashamed for charging $8:50 for a stubbie or can! Yeah we all know prices are up and it costs more for overheads etc but you are straight out ripping people off. At a time of dwindling crowds and poor onfield performance it is absurd that the club charges night club prices. This is a footy club where after paying for a membership or $20 to walk through the gate you should not have to pay exorbitant prices for a few refreshments, it’s a joke. 

Great post Danger and I'm sure other Swans fans are asking the same sorts of questions. I agree that its a bit strange that an ex league coach is now in charge of the reserves and I wonder if Pruen is getting the sense that he is being observed and there is a coach in waiting if he fails.

I made the point earlier that I think some of the local youngsters are missing out on games at the expense of over rated recruits and I don't think we have got full value from the players we have attracted from Victoria over the past few years. Fisher and Anderson were very good but some of the others came with big reputations but haven't really delivered.

To me there is an element of comfort/overfamiliarity/ group think about the club in that players don't seem to feel challenged or confronted by their form. Pruen seems like a really nice bloke and the players get on well with him but does that translate into results on the field? The scoreboard say not.

Many of the decision makers at the club are dyed in the wool Swans people who have a lot of history with the club which is great to a point but do they challenge each other in the direction they are taking on the field?  Its almost like there is a need for a modern day John Todd to come in, someone with no history or stake in the club to start asking some awkward questions and demanding more from the playing group. Talent wise they are as good as anyone in the league I reckon but they are not performing and it needs some analysis from a new person ( similar to what German is doing at Perth although he is starting from a lot further back)

Swans are now on a great footing financially and are doing some fantastic work in the community so now is the time to look at how they can improve their results and development of players on the field so that finals are something that we can expect rather than hope for on a yearly basis.
 

mikeh wrote:

Great post Danger and I'm sure other Swans fans are asking the same sorts of questions. I agree that its a bit strange that an ex league coach is now in charge of the reserves and I wonder if Pruen is getting the sense that he is being observed and there is a coach in waiting if he fails.

I made the point earlier that I think some of the local youngsters are missing out on games at the expense of over rated recruits and I don't think we have got full value from the players we have attracted from Victoria over the past few years. Fisher and Anderson were very good but some of the others came with big reputations but haven't really delivered.

To me there is an element of comfort/overfamiliarity/ group think about the club in that players don't seem to feel challenged or confronted by their form. Pruen seems like a really nice bloke and the players get on well with him but does that translate into results on the field? The scoreboard say not.

Many of the decision makers at the club are dyed in the wool Swans people who have a lot of history with the club which is great to a point but do they challenge each other in the direction they are taking on the field?  Its almost like there is a need for a modern day John Todd to come in, someone with no history or stake in the club to start asking some awkward questions and demanding more from the playing group. Talent wise they are as good as anyone in the league I reckon but they are not performing and it needs some analysis from a new person ( similar to what German is doing at Perth although he is starting from a lot further back)

Swans are now on a great footing financially and are doing some fantastic work in the community so now is the time to look at how they can improve their results and development of players on the field so that finals are something that we can expect rather than hope for on a yearly basis.


This promise has been coming for 3-4 years. Fisher won a Sandover in a 9 game season but is he really the type of player/person we need or want? Anderson was unlucky, Jones has played some good footy at times and was made a leader but not consistent, Kemp imo is a class player who is severely impacted by our style of footy and McGlaughlin is classy but too small to be a bonafide mid. Jesse Palmer is a smart fwd but gets limited opportunities. Pina is a gun.

There have been other recruits that also haven’t worked out like Palmer, Crowley and Ellis. 

Verdict is out on Glass-McKasker and time will tell on Lynch. Cameron coming back isn’t working but geez it’d be hard playing his role.

Then if we look at development… where are the colts kids in our league side from the most recent flag? Chipper hasn’t progressed and  or been given a fair crack, Hewitt seems to be getting a run now, Ugle quit while others like Cartwright seem stuck in the 2’s or have left. 

I think you brought up a good point about individuals not challenging each other and I think it’s both on and off field. In the coaches box we still have Laurito and Piani joined the panel, Howard is in his second year. Ames has also been runner for the most part this year.. While having ex players involved is great it is pointless if they are just Yes men. 



 

Someone posted the club will blame injuries and we have had many but what I dont understand is how we went in to Rd 1 with about 9 of our best 25 all missing through injury???
And it has stayed around that same amount of around 8-10 injured per game ever since, we seem to get 1 back and 2 more go down???
Yes some may have been unlucky eg Collins & Erceg and the likes of Notte & Anderson (since retired) were coming off knee recos but gee questions have to be asked how you can have so many out for so long in what is only a 18 game season???!!!
Unfortunately it looked like Ottaviano did his knee on Saturday adding to the carnage of 2023.
 

Danger wrote:

mikeh wrote:

Great post Danger and I'm sure other Swans fans are asking the same sorts of questions. I agree that its a bit strange that an ex league coach is now in charge of the reserves and I wonder if Pruen is getting the sense that he is being observed and there is a coach in waiting if he fails.

I made the point earlier that I think some of the local youngsters are missing out on games at the expense of over rated recruits and I don't think we have got full value from the players we have attracted from Victoria over the past few years. Fisher and Anderson were very good but some of the others came with big reputations but haven't really delivered.

To me there is an element of comfort/overfamiliarity/ group think about the club in that players don't seem to feel challenged or confronted by their form. Pruen seems like a really nice bloke and the players get on well with him but does that translate into results on the field? The scoreboard say not.

Many of the decision makers at the club are dyed in the wool Swans people who have a lot of history with the club which is great to a point but do they challenge each other in the direction they are taking on the field?  Its almost like there is a need for a modern day John Todd to come in, someone with no history or stake in the club to start asking some awkward questions and demanding more from the playing group. Talent wise they are as good as anyone in the league I reckon but they are not performing and it needs some analysis from a new person ( similar to what German is doing at Perth although he is starting from a lot further back)

Swans are now on a great footing financially and are doing some fantastic work in the community so now is the time to look at how they can improve their results and development of players on the field so that finals are something that we can expect rather than hope for on a yearly basis.


This promise has been coming for 3-4 years. Fisher won a Sandover in a 9 game season but is he really the type of player/person we need or want? Anderson was unlucky, Jones has played some good footy at times and was made a leader but not consistent, Kemp imo is a class player who is severely impacted by our style of footy and McGlaughlin is classy but too small to be a bonafide mid. Jesse Palmer is a smart fwd but gets limited opportunities. Pina is a gun.

There have been other recruits that also haven’t worked out like Palmer, Crowley and Ellis. 

Verdict is out on Glass-McKasker and time will tell on Lynch. Cameron coming back isn’t working but geez it’d be hard playing his role.

Then if we look at development… where are the colts kids in our league side from the most recent flag? Chipper hasn’t progressed and  or been given a fair crack, Hewitt seems to be getting a run now, Ugle quit while others like Cartwright seem stuck in the 2’s or have left. 

I think you brought up a good point about individuals not challenging each other and I think it’s both on and off field. In the coaches box we still have Laurito and Piani joined the panel, Howard is in his second year. Ames has also been runner for the most part this year.. While having ex players involved is great it is pointless if they are just Yes men. 





So it brings to question…. Who is running the club? Is it Hodyl and Holmes, Is it Dennis, is it Smart and Harding or is it a collective that are protecting themselves instead of the clubs best interests. 

All have been great contributors but time for real change is long overdue and they can’t all stay while being influential to our current on field status.

Beasley Hutton wrote:

Someone posted the club will blame injuries and we have had many but what I dont understand is how we went in to Rd 1 with about 9 of our best 25 all missing through injury???
And it has stayed around that same amount of around 8-10 injured per game ever since, we seem to get 1 back and 2 more go down???
Yes some may have been unlucky eg Collins & Erceg and the likes of Notte & Anderson (since retired) were coming off knee recos but gee questions have to be asked how you can have so many out for so long in what is only a 18 game season???!!!



It’s a cop out. Our game style would be no different as was apparent in our win against West Coast, after the siren win over Perth and for most games in the past 3-5 years if not longer. No attack, no flair for the most part and on the odd occasion it does appear it’s unable to be sustained for longer than a couple of qtrs normally. 
 

Harding is close to Pruyn, that is why he came back to coach reserves after leaving the talent manager job.
Our game style is horrible, Jones is a good target to kick to and we should be encouraged to move to him at all costs quickly which would also bring other players into the game. Kemp started well last year as a goal sneak and then ends up playing a 100 metres from goal and can’t get a kick. None of it makes any sense.
Fisher is a good player but he should have been given his marching orders, not a pay rise when he went behind the clubs back to move to claremont, imagine pulling that move with Toddy in charge.