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General Franco, that is. He would be extremely unchuffed with events in Barcelona. Madrid will have to come up with a coherent strategy if he declares UDI.

Nasty business Ark.Goes back to the Spanish Civil War in the 1930's.Just watch the EU make a mess of this as the escalation begins.

gtr: they need to back Spain otherwise Putin will swoop on eastern Ukraine and parts of Estonia where the ethnic Russians are a majority in the country.

ArkRoyal wrote: gtr: they need to back Spain otherwise Putin will swoop on eastern Ukraine and parts of Estonia where the ethnic Russians are a majority in the country.

Ark that sounds a lot like Hitler.One of the reasons he invaded thoes neighbouring countries.. In the Spanish Civil War where Barcelona Communist of Franko Facist

Franco died in the 70s.

The Catalonians are bloody mad, it really has never been a separate nation, apart from about 10 yrs. in the 1600's I think, it was part of Aragon for all its existence in the main.

Sure they have their own language and dance etc., but that is nothing unusual about regions of Europe, there are Catalans in France that have no interest in being separate from France.

This problem is really rooted in the Communist uprising and the Anarchists from the Civil War, Barcelona was the heart of Spanish Communism, and they have never liked the fact they lost to Franco. Most in the region see themselves as Spaniards, you have a student based intellectual elite pushing this rubbish. Only 40% voted in a orchestrated Yes turnout.

Madrid had every right to shut it down , the National Parliament and the Supreme Court ordered it illegal and to be shut down, they knew this but went ahead as a stunt.

gtr: yes, I can see Putin using a similar principle to Hitler in relation to making use of the Russian monorites to re-expand Russia. In addition, the West is worried he will try re-connect the enclave of Kalingrad to Russia proper -- in other words advance over north-east Poland.

Barcelona sided with the Left in the Civil war, partly becasuse, as Bazza said, it was a hot bed of left-ism, and because, the government in Madrid promissed them great autonomy. You can see the left-wing influence today, as they are trying to organise a general strike.

Madrid was stupid to send in the police, but to compare a few hundred injurred -- includding police -- with Franco is stupid. He would have made certain there was no vote by using enough force, sending in the army to support the police.

Overall, it was not a bad day for Spain, because as you know, most people stayed home and did not vote in an illegal referendum.

Ark if Spain can seperate maby there's hope for Western Australia. The other day it was said that the 2 territories Act+NT.Are not suppose to be involved in the GST equasion.They are the responsibility of Canberra. Not to be paid by Wa.
Don't think Putin will do anything to Poland.Why Trumps President. Think there's 6000 US troops there sent by Obama.

gtrxuone wrote: Ark if Spain can seperate maby there's hope for Western Australia. The other day it was said that the 2 territories Act+NT.Are not suppose to be involved in the GST equasion.They are the responsibility of Canberra. Not to be paid by Wa.
Don't think Putin will do anything to Poland.Why Trumps President. Think there's 6000 US troops there sent by Obama.

A unilateral declaration of independence would never work under international law, for self determination to apply you have to be a colony under UN Conventions, Catalonia is 100% part of Spain and would receive no international recognition, its an internal matter and Spain would be entitled to use force if necessary to prevent any illegal attacks on the National Constitution.

WA Cant break away without a national referendum, if we did it unilaterally we would be in the same boat as Catalonia.

Let us be blunt: what the Catalonians are trying to pull off is nothing more than coup pure and simple, whilst rattlling on about democracy and self determination. Well let us see how democratic the referendum was using the government's own results. Accordingly,

42 per cent of the electorate voted 10 per cent voted No
58 per cent stayed home
that means that only 33 percent of the electorate supportted indpendnence

There would actually be more chance of succession from Australia, because here, a part of public opinion would support a vote as they have been schooled in the tradition of English liberalism.

Although, I support the Spanish on this question, similar to Russia, the country has no liberal tradition whatsoever, meaning that it has territorial disputes with other countries left right and centre.

Do they apply the same democratic logic to Gibraltar? The whole saga demonstrates why the UK will have to maintain a military edge over Madrid forever and a day.

Gib has always voted strongly to stay with UK.

Gib is subject to the principal of self determination.