TOPIC:

As a previous subscriber, and avid reader of The Economist, I would say with some confidence that it has been a number of years since that newspaper has been an advocate of Turkey joining the EU - let alone accommodating Islam.

www.economist.com/europe/2016/12/01/turk...u-is-on-life-support

But I am happy to look at evidence to the contrary.

jack: you are correct about the recent change in editorial policy, but as you know, they should not have advocatted such a policy in the bloody first place. Turkey was lucky to get NATO membership out of Truman, and, to be honest, jack, in the light of Erdoganism, he should be threatened with a review of Ankara's membership if his funny business continues.

Remember the time he shot down the Russian jet? The big Middle East tough man grovelled very quickly to Washington.

AR I remember well from about the middle of last decade when the Economist described him as "mildly Islamist", and were editorially certainly big fans of Erdogan.

That probably changed around the turn of the decade when his ambitions started to become pretty obvious, leading up to his conversion from PM to President in 2014. His adoption of a more strident form of Islam seemed to serve his political convenience. It also seemed to allow him to seek a more dominant role in the middle east, as a foil for the very extreme Saudi Wahhabi form of Islam ie he sees himself as a big dick in the region.

Turkey would be an ill fit in the EU.

jackspratt wrote: AR I remember well from about the middle of last decade when the Economist described him as "mildly Islamist", and were editorially certainly big fans of Erdogan.

That probably changed around the turn of the decade when his ambitions started to become pretty obvious, leading up to his conversion from PM to President in 2014. His adoption of a more strident form of Islam seemed to serve his political convenience. It also seemed to allow him to seek a more dominant role in the middle east, as a foil for the very extreme Saudi Wahhabi form of Islam ie he sees himself as a big dick in the region.

Turkey would be an ill fit in the EU.

He wants to re introduce the death penalty ,if that happens its automatic exclusion from the EU anyway.

ArkRoyal wrote: gtr: as you know there are too many religious, cultural and racial problems associatted with turkey joining the EU; Austria, on racial grounds too, would hold a referendum and leave and its government has made this clear for years. Connected to Austria leaving, is the other big problem in regards Turkish membership: money; in short, the Austriams contribute to the budget, and Turkey, in contrast, because of its poverty would be a massive drain on the Germans and Scandinanvians. Turkey, too, we should remember, if it joined, would be the second biggest member in population behind only Berlin; this fact, would leave the EU with big problems, especially if the EU ever properly democratised. Finally, as has been obvious during the Syria War, Turkey is nation of the Middle East, its geostrategic core in that region.

Turkish membership has long been a pet dribble of a lot of British liberals led by the 'Economist' newspaper, spoutting artciles on the need for Europe to 'accommadate islam'. It is rubblsh, of course, as all the EU, and the West have to do in realtion to Turkey and Islam, is to be civilised and co-exist with it -- nothing more.

There's already a massive influx of Turks in Austria, was in Salzburg a few years ago and the number of head scarf shops was quite startlling..Turkey joining the EU would break the EU up, there is no way Hungary Bulgaria or Poland would agree to it.

Sorry to go slightly off topic but surely the whole concept of organised religion is more dangerous than relations between religions. Not sure igtheism ever killed anybody.

STT: I agree 100 per cent, we should be a secular state -- and despite the divisions between Prodis and Catholics -- we have been officially. The problem has become more acute because of our third world immigration policy -- people form the Middle East and South Asia are more likely to be religious. Hence. in Western Sydney, there was a 'no' vote in the gay marriage referendum

Having pray rooms at sports ground, is most definitely not secularism.

If only christianity and islam were of the same vintage maybe both would have run out of steam by now...