TOPIC:

Thus smart decision making then BH by Subi...and shite decision making by Perth then.....couldnt be money as pretty sure the Morton's would of commanded a bigger pay packet than Lockyer, Kitchin and Della on their WAFL debuts....surely

Freezin wrote: In the last 30 years BH...EF have won about 3 or 4?....and your point?

My point Freeze being there is a misconception on here that SD have a great zone etc 6 Colts flags in 70 years is hardly dominate compared to the likes of CL & EF who would have won more than double that.

so to sum up:
three clubs have won flags because they recruited -- S, WP, SD

leaving three, EF, SF and CL, whom probably had the talent, if the draft age was higher.

Just about everyone’s point Freez, inc subi supporters is that your idea that subi’s success is just down to having a culture they have that other clubs lack is nonsense.

What is so special about a culture that allows one of its best to go on hols overseas mid season? If any other club did this they would be pilloried got bring slack, if PFC did if everyone would be saying ‘And you wonder why you are crap!!!’’
I don’t have a problem with it but that’s not culture that is dominance.
Also while we are on it what is so good about the culture of a club that was going to run an argument that calling someone an Asian c is not racist.

ArkRoyal wrote: so to sum up:
three clubs have won flags because they recruited -- S, WP, SD

leaving three, EF, SF and CL, whom probably had the talent, if the draft age was higher.

AR which WAFL flag isnt won off some recruiting from outside even the 3 clubs you have named above?

EF's last flag side contained Eastern Staters like Bromage, Mellody, Madigan, O'Brien, Kerr, Bowden & Condon plus Dhurrkay from NT then you had Earl & Scott Spalding from Perth, Egan from Claremont, Willison from EP that is more than half the side.

SF had the likes of Clucas EF, Crawford Vic, Hay EP, Hewitt SU, Murphy Vic, Tippa NT, Ugle PE, Webb WP etc from outside in their 2005 flag.

Claremont who we all acknowledge have the best zone (Western Suburbs, Great Southern, Ongerup, West/East/Central Kimberley) even have not been idol in regards to recruiting in their Premiership years either Blackwell SD via Carl, McLernon PH, Schammer ex Freo, Andrews WP, Foster EF.

Beasley Hutton wrote:

Senior Seagull wrote: I'm not sure the stats support the idea that Subi's zone is a stellar zone. the club has won a total of 3 colts flags and 1 4th's flag, prior to 2018 the previous colts flag was 1989 and before that 1974, not really an example of having a dominant zone. The last few years has seen a good group come through that played finals in '17 and won in '18, that happenes from time to time the last time for Subi was in the early naughties when players like Parker and Smith came up through the colts and before that in the early 80's when Keene, the Taylors, Phil & Dwayne Lamb, Breman Browne came through forming the basis of Buntons teams. I cant find anything about perths colts but Swans according to their website have won 6 colts flags and 3 4th's flags so 9 from their development squads, that would indicate that the geographical location of the zone has less impact than the participation numbers.

SS out of interest how many Colts flags have Claremont & EF won?
We have won 6 as you say which is ok but nothing outstanding in 70 years or so however long the Colts have been going.

Haven't researched EF or Cl, their success at colts level is unrivalled, I researched SD and Perth (cant find info on perth colts) as you and STD particularly STD) had mentioned how our zone was a great zone, or in your case that SD zone was not good when compared to Subi's as we were a western suburbs club.

BH: I am with you, CL side back in 1987 had just as many imports as Subi; if the Tigers had to rely on their zone they could do it more easily then most clubs, I am sure you would agree.

Two questions, bease, when you have the time:

Leaving aside the inequities of the zone, particularly for WP, Peel and EP, what would you regard as a 'zone premiership'. 12, 14, 16 or up locals?

Do you think SD might have managed a flag without the recruiting if the draft age was higher. I seem to remember the club having some good key position players -- Cummings, Ball, O'reilley, Handley, Nick N -- but possibly being a bit weak in the mid field compared to some of the other clubs?

The 70s and 80s flags were zone flags. Each side had one, two , three recruits...

ArkRoyal wrote: BH: I am with you, CL side back in 1987 had just as many imports as Subi; if the Tigers had to rely on their zone they could do it more easily then most clubs, I am sure you would agree.

Two questions, bease, when you have the time:

Leaving aside the inequities of the zone, particularly for WP, Peel and EP, what would you regard as a 'zone premiership'. 12, 14, 16 or up locals?

Do you think SD might have managed a flag without the recruiting if the draft age was higher. I seem to remember the club having some good key position players -- Cummings, Ball, O'reilley, Handley, Nick N -- but possibly being a bit weak in the mid field compared to some of the other clubs?

AR if the draft age was lifted to 20 (which I am in favour of) then our Colts group from 07/08 may well have won a League flag in 2010 but they would still have been a young squad coming up against seasoned experienced sides like SU, CL & SF etc at that time so who would know, you still need some more experienced heads, bigger bodies around the group to guide them through.

Our GF side in 2008 against your beloved Subi contained from memory 12 teenagers and we did a pretty good job even reaching the GF with such an inexperienced albeit talented squad who came from scraping into 4th place that year in the last few minutes of the last round thanks to a Nic Nat snap goal to win against Peel from memory, I am not sure there would have been too many WAFL GF sides that contained 12 teenagers (most of whom were subsequently drafted or already at WCE/FD) over the years (barring of course the under age comp during WW2).

Just don't buy into your argument STT that a better pay packet suddenly makes an individual a better footballer....that being the case, why don't Perth just crack open the war chest and pay Coniglio, Lague, Dennis etc to be better footballers....like Subi did apparently for the likes of Sokol, Heal et al...yeah money talks completely understand that....but surely an environment conducive to setting and maintain high standards of expectation and professionalism on and off the footy field have built very strong foundations of success and continued success for Subi….yes helped by a fat bank balance....but players still need to buy into it surely? Perth like EF have made some very poor on and off field decisions in terms of coaching, recruiting etc over the past few decades....Spalding is only now seeing rewards in terms of implementing high standards and expectations from the playing group in terms of recruiting quality people willing to buy into his ethos....ditto EF with Monaghan at EF....but hey we can argue this all day long.....in my eyes Subi set the standard for high expectations on and off the footy field....something every club should aspire to whether they have a war chest or not....